Author Topic: Music Jukebox. Get Ready! (FAQ with Videos)  (Read 55493 times)

Offline jer1956

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Music Jukebox. Get Ready! (FAQ with Videos)
« on: January 17, 2012, 09:39:59 pm »
The forth coming Music Jukebox works on Tags. The Tags are used to search the music, the resulting tracklists being used as a playlist. The Music Player in Jukebox will also display tags derived from ALL jukeboxed media...not just MP3.

Those not using mp3 have to use an external scanner. That scanner is part of this software:-
http://www.xdlab.ru/en/index.htm

It supports most tagging systems. You are not expected to change to MP3 just to use the Jukebox. All supported audio codecs using Tags can be used. If you have a mix of MP3 and other formats...Tagscanner is used to scan everything. If you only have mp3..you don't need tagscanner's output as the X2's internal scan will be enough...but you may want to use it to check tags.

The actual scanning script will not be released yet, but I suggest those intending to use the Music Jukebox get used to it now...and re-tagging.

The Key tags are:-
Album Title
Album Artist
Track Genre
Track Year
Track Title
Track Artist
Track Number (used when renaming files)

There are issues once you change to a tag based database. We will be using a Tagging Terminology. So Track mean Track number..Title means Track Name.  Each album title entry can only be linked to a single path. So multi-CD rips using the same album name...and relying on the disk tag to identify them from the others, dosn't work. You can add the disk number to the album title...and store in separate folders. Or create a single album in one folder by changing the track numbers.

Also to make File names used by the GUI consistent with Track names used by Jukebox Search, you should do a global "Rename from Track Title Tag" using the Music Renamer tool in the Tagscanner when all the tagging is complete. Otherwise you search one thing and see something else. Also Jukebox has to work with some of the limitations of the ordinary Music Player.  So using Track Number - Title as the file name is a good option...then  the Track Names can be seen in the space allowed for file names in Player, and Music Player can use alpha  sort to list them..as it can't use the Track Number tag.

If you have used mutiple tagging tools over time then you may find you have mutiple names for the same Genre, or Artist.  This happens a lot when you tag using net based databases.  So to search and display all albums of a particluer Genre, or Artist,  you need to use the same variant of the name. For Genre, using a standard drop list from a single tagger application is the best way to  do  this. This is something you  do when you have finished tagging using online databases.  You can use a similer approach to solving the Artist Name issue..select all their Albums..and save one single version of their name into the selected files.



For eye candy you need to import Cover images. These can be embedded if supported by the audio package you use. Otherwise either folder.jpg or cover.jpg can  be placed in the album folder.

We would recommend that those with an Album based Music Archive, especially on a NAS , shift over to using folder.jpg, This will quicken up the display of Album Icons, and make the GUI of Music Player smoother. Clearly those who download singles, or a few tracks per album, don't store music in album folders. Those users will continue to use embeded art if they want images shown  with icons and Music Player.

NEW PROMO VIDEO
Large:-
http://www.mede8er.org/artwork/temp/Mede8er_Music_Jukebox_V2.0.4_Preview.mp4
Small:-
http://www.mede8er.org/artwork/temp/Mede8er_Music_Jukebox_V2.0.4_Preview_web.mp4

Or the Youtube version:


There are some nice editing effects in this. So no..there are no scrolling screen changes in the firmware itself!
« Last Edit: August 14, 2012, 09:00:33 pm by Maasbommel »

Offline jer1956

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Re: Music Jukebox. Get Ready!
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2012, 11:05:38 am »
FAQ

1) Is there a known limitation of how many tracks (files) you can index before there is a performance impact on the X2?

Answer

It has been tested by some up to 40K titles(tracks). Searches are going to get slower the more titles you have...and if your Music is stored on a NAS. Both of those testing with a large collection use a NAS...and aren't saying it's unusable.

Heres is a video searching a 20k Track NAS database via Samba:-
http://www.mede8er.org/artwork/temp/Mede8er_Music_Jukebox_Speed_Over_Samba_20k_Titles.mp4

2) Currently all my album art is embedded in ID3v2 tags at a resolution of 500x500.  What is the best resolution for Jukebox and what gives better performance, embedded or a folder.jpg.  Should I rather put a folder.jpg into each album folder?  Maybe MP3TagScanner extracts the album art and resizes it to the best resolution for X2.

Answer

Preview uses 230 x 230. So images above that have to be resized by the X2.  There is no noticable hit with that up to  say 350 x 350. So you only need to rescale if above 350 x 350.  We recommend 72 DPI...but it's not critical.  We already recommend a rescaling tool as this is an issue for the current music player.
http://hcware.110mb.com/mp3art/

We are introducing a new screensaver with Music Jukebox. That will use folder.jpg instead of the Mede8er logo..but only if they are no bigger than 250x250. See New Promo Video in main post.

If you now to need to batch rescale..you should try this;-
http://www.faststone.org/FSResizerDetail.htm



3) If you have 1000+ tracks, should you rather use the PC software to create database instead of the onboard X2 scanner.  Just worried you could be sitting for hours waiting for the X2 to finish scanning.

Answer


Getting the X2 to handle non MP3 Tags was essential to making Jukebox worthwhile. Finding a ready solution wasn't easy...and has consequnces.  The output from tagscanner is not in the database form used by the deeper code of the X2. So it has to be converted by the X2 itself. This is done only once...in place  of scanning MP3 files.  That internal conversion is about 1K-2K titles a min, depending upon where the database is located. Tagscanning itself is best done using USB slave mode.  So I find myslef having tagging sessions...move the X2 to the PC...tag more tracks..run the tagscanner. Then move the X2 back to the home Theater...and rebuild the database.



4) Is there a best practice folder/filename structure to follow?

Answer

Like the Movie Jukebox...the folder structure scanned is converted into a database and then displayed flat. Everthing is virtual from then on anyway...folders have no meaning. I have kept my usual folder structure  Music/artist/album. Those who rip tracks may have somthing completely  different...like tracks ripped in  2011.

What is crucial is mating file names to title tags. The GUI uses filenames...the database tags. So when you search Titles (tracks)...your searching tags...but you see filenames. So once you have tagged...before Tagscanning...you should do  a global "Rename from Track Title Tag". That should include Track number, or Artist as well if you want. Track Number is needed in the filename as Jukebox still uses the Music Player, and that can't sort by Tags.    

5) Will it really display tags other than MP3 in the player?

Answer

Flac

http://www.mede8er.org/artwork/temp/Mede8er_music_jukebox_flac_tags.mp4

We will make  more examples.

6) Will I be able to have multiple music jukeboxes like you can in the movie jukebox by setting up a Favorites to various folders folders?

Answer

Yes..but Music Jukebox has a playlist feature allowing you to pull tracks from all your albums or downloads.  These have to be in a single jukebox.  If all you want are particuler folders grouped together...than jukebox may not be for you. The same goes for Movie Jukebox.



7) Will Music Jukebox play my current playlists?

Answer

Not directly.  They will have to be re-located to a specfic folder in Jukebox.  We have a  tip  for that.
http://www.mede8erforum.com/index.php/topic,7881.msg49817.html#msg49817
You can do this now..and prove they work using the ordinary Music Player.

Tracks in the playlist are identified in the database via their path, and then you get their Tag Data displayed when they are played.




8 ) Will Music Jukebox use Track Artists when playing compilations?


Answer.

Artist in the various search tools means Track Artist.    Album Artist is used when displaying Album Names.   After much re-tagging we recommend the following:-

i) Tag each track with that tracks Artist Name. Use   "X, the" instead of "The X" for the Track Artist..as this helps locate their tracks.

You should do this with Single Artist albums as well...but when setting the Album Artist Tag..use still " The X"...it looks better on the GUI.


ii) Tag Genre for each track as a search tag for finding compilation albums. So don't use Pop, or Rock..but Top100, Best Of, Various instead.

iii) Tag the Album Artist as Various, or Various Artists.



9)  Will it support Itunes?


Answer

It does support m4a, without DRM, provided they are stored like other music the Jukebox supports.  Unfortunately the internal scanner is still only MP3.  So Tagscanner has to be used to convert the tags into XML.  This can be done on the latest MAC's using this:-

http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/40711/winonx

You must attach the X2 to the MAC using USB slave mode.

(Thanks to Macuser for finding and proving this)
« Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 03:33:52 pm by jer1956 »

Offline dlm

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Re: Music Jukebox. Get Ready!
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2012, 12:33:56 pm »
Forth coming could be any time in the future. Is there an estimate of when the Music Juke box will be rolled out?

Offline Geoff103

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Re: Music Jukebox. Get Ready! (FAQ with Videos)
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2012, 01:29:09 pm »
Bumped.

Offline jer1956

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Re: Music Jukebox. Get Ready! (FAQ with Videos)
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2012, 02:26:47 pm »
Bump...

Offline jer1956

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Re: Music Jukebox. Get Ready! (FAQ with Videos)
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2012, 05:27:27 pm »
Bump

Offline jer1956

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Re: Music Jukebox. Get Ready! (FAQ with Videos)
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2012, 07:52:22 pm »
Bump. More clarifaction on the use of embedded art, mainly for NAS users.

Offline AdrianH

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Re: Music Jukebox. Get Ready! (FAQ with Videos)
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2012, 08:09:20 pm »
Quote
We would recommend that those with an Album based Music Archive, especially on a NAS , shift over to using folder.jpg, and remove the embedded art. This will quicken up the display of Album Icons, and make the GUI of Music Player smoother.

Firstly, just for clarification on removing the album art and using folder.jpg.  Will this speed up the GUI of the jukebox, or the GUI that shows the tracks for a particular album (ie: the album art for each track)?

Secondly, if my audio files have embedded art and a folder.jpg also exists in the folder, what will the X2 check for first?

Lastly, I would prefer not to remove my album art if possible.  If I were to set the album art type to something other than "front cover" and set it to "Back cover" or "Other" or "Leaflet" or "Media", would the X2 ignore this album art?  I suppose my question should actually be, what cover types does the X2 read from?

Offline jer1956

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Re: Music Jukebox. Get Ready! (FAQ with Videos)
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2012, 08:27:03 pm »
Firstly, just for clarification on removing the album art and using folder.jpg.  Will this speed up the GUI of the jukebox, or the GUI that shows the tracks for a particular album (ie: the album art for each track)?

Secondly, if my audio files have embedded art and a folder.jpg also exists in the folder, what will the X2 check for first?

Lastly, I would prefer not to remove my album art if possible.  If I were to set the album art type to something other than "front cover" and set it to "Back cover" or "Other" or "Leaflet" or "Media", would the X2 ignore this album art?  I suppose my question should actually be, what cover types does the X2 read from?


OK...we are not talking huge differences. So leave them for now...and I will check. My advice will be to add folder.jpg...but not remove embedded for now... These are very good questions!   Only cover.jpg and folder.jpg work and are used for both icon and music player display. Cover.jpg is not offically supported. That means support could vanish.

Now we are already thinking about improvements. You cannot multi-task with Jukebox. You can't play muisc..and  go off and look at photo's. So we will start to look at screensaver as away to have more images. But we are not adding new functions now...we are just becoming aware of the limitations and possible future solutions.

My personal favourite idea would be to have a folder of album specific art..and get a flikr type screenaver using that.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 08:40:11 pm by jer1956 »

Offline AdrianH

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Re: Music Jukebox. Get Ready! (FAQ with Videos)
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2012, 08:45:10 pm »
I did a quick test regarding the "cover type" setting and folder.jpg.  

1) When I browsed in the Media Library, the folder representing the album showed the folder.jpg.
2) When i went into the folder to view the tracks, the embedded art was displayed.
3) When clicking on a file and launching the player, the embedded art was displayed.

It also seems that X2 will recognize any embedded album art regardless of what the type is set to.

I'll retest this scenario once the Jukebox gets released.

Quote
My personal favourite idea would be to have a folder of album specific art..and get a flikr type screenaver using that.
I don't know how the Flickr one looks, but I know using my XBox as a Media Center Extender bascially created a background of tiled (lets say 12 high by 80 wide) albums arts which slowly scrolled.  That was quite nice.

Offline jer1956

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Re: Music Jukebox. Get Ready! (FAQ with Videos)
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2012, 08:53:27 pm »
The curent priority is embedded art first.  We want to chage that to folder.jpg becuase we have tested and it is faster for Jukebox..but we  had to remove the embedded art to  do the test. Just changing the priority might be enough to get the speed benefits.

Turn on the flickr scareensaver option in the X2 to see what I was reffering too.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 08:59:42 pm by jer1956 »

Offline Hsd

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Re: Music Jukebox. Get Ready! (FAQ with Videos)
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2012, 09:04:54 pm »
This would have the disadvantage that one can not have different album art for different tracks. Example: I have a folder that contains 100 single tracks, each with its own cover art.

Offline jer1956

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Re: Music Jukebox. Get Ready! (FAQ with Videos)
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2012, 10:18:24 pm »
We have no intention of removing supprt for embedded art. We just feel using a single cover.jpg is faster for those who can use it...and we  need to see if it is just as fast if  the embedded art is still present.  We have a Dev version which can be used to  test this.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 10:06:37 am by jer1956 »

Offline jer1956

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Re: Music Jukebox. Get Ready! (FAQ with Videos)
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2012, 04:09:08 pm »
Bump ..Rationalize genre names advice.

Offline jer1956

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Re: Music Jukebox. Get Ready! (FAQ with Videos)
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2012, 06:23:41 pm »
Bump...change to recommeded file names. Re-naming from tags is automatic if you select All in Tagscanner..so this change is not that time consuming.