HD Streaming via LAN - juddering

[Mede8er1]

Hi elbarto25

I dont have a issue with the m2ts files that I have with the exception of one that if super high bitrate at 29fps
but I use HaneWin on my PC --- Settings as foll

Number of UDP NFS Server Threads    32
Max NFS transfwr size (bytes)       32768

Maybe you need to check if you can change these on your server to increase the transfer speed.

The Dark Knight has 9 audio streams ?? The max bitrate of both are 48Mb/sec but the overall or average is a lot lower on the one that does not stutter. I could suggest you try TXMuxer http://www.smlabs.net/tsmuxer_en.html and remove some of those audio streams that are not required.   
 
The attached screenshot is of Hellboy2 and the bit rate is very similar to the MediaInfo of the Dark Knight

General
ID                               : 0
Complete name                    : L:\h264\BDMV\Hellboy 2\BDMV\STREAM\00220.m2ts
Format                           : BDAV
Format/Info                      : Blu-ray Video
File size                        : 25.7 GiB
Duration                         : 1h 59mn
Overall bit rate                 : 30.8 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate         : 48.0 Mbps

Video #1
ID                               : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID                          : 1 (0x1)
Format                           : AVC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                   : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC           : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames        : 4 frames
Duration                         : 1h 59mn
Width                            : 1 920 pixels
Height                           : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 16:9
Frame rate                       : 23.976 fps
Resolution                       : 24 bits
Colorimetry                      : 4:2:0
Scan type                        : Progressive
Color primaries                  : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4, SMPTE RP177
Transfer characteristics         : BT.709-5, BT.1361
Matrix coefficients              : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4 709, SMPTE RP177

Video #2
ID                               : 6912 (0x1B00)
Menu ID                          : 1 (0x1)
Format                           : AVC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                   : High@L3.2
Format settings, CABAC           : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames        : 4 frames
Duration                         : 1h 59mn
Width                            : 720 pixels
Height                           : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 16:9
Frame rate                       : 23.976 fps
Standard                         : NTSC
Resolution                       : 24 bits
Colorimetry                      : 4:2:0
Scan type                        : Progressive
Color primaries                  : BT.601-6 525, BT.1358 525, BT.1700 NTSC, SMPTE 170M
Transfer characteristics         : BT.601-6 525, BT.601-6 625, BT.1358 525, BT.1358 625, BT.1700 NTSC, SMPTE 170M
Matrix coefficients              : BT.601-6 525, BT.1358 525, BT.1700 NTSC, SMPTE 170M

Audio #1
ID                               : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID                          : 1 (0x1)
Format                           : DTS
Format/Info                      : Digital Theater Systems
Format profile                   : MA
Duration                         : 1h 59mn
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Channel(s)                       : 8 channels
Channel positions                : Front: L C R, Surround: L R, Wide: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                    : 48.0 KHz
Resolution                       : 24 bits

Audio #2
ID                               : 4353 (0x1101)
Menu ID                          : 1 (0x1)
Format                           : DTS
Format/Info                      : Digital Theater Systems
Duration                         : 1h 59mn
Bit rate mode                    : Constant
Bit rate                         : 755 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 6 channels
Channel positions                : Front: L C R, Surround: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                    : 48.0 KHz
Resolution                       : 24 bits
Stream size                      : 647 MiB (2%)

Audio #3
ID                               : 4354 (0x1102)
Menu ID                          : 1 (0x1)
Format                           : DTS
Format/Info                      : Digital Theater Systems
Duration                         : 1h 59mn
Bit rate mode                    : Constant
Bit rate                         : 755 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 6 channels
Channel positions                : Front: L C R, Surround: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                    : 48.0 KHz
Resolution                       : 24 bits
Stream size                      : 647 MiB (2%)

Audio #4
ID                               : 4355 (0x1103)
Menu ID                          : 1 (0x1)
Format                           : AC-3
Format/Info                      : Audio Coding 3
Format profile                   : Dolby Digital
Duration                         : 1h 59mn
Bit rate mode                    : Constant
Bit rate                         : 192 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 2 channels
Channel positions                : L R
Sampling rate                    : 48.0 KHz
Stream size                      : 165 MiB (1%)

Audio #5
ID                               : 4356 (0x1104)
Menu ID                          : 1 (0x1)
Format                           : AC-3
Format/Info                      : Audio Coding 3
Format profile                   : Dolby Digital
Duration                         : 1h 59mn
Bit rate mode                    : Constant
Bit rate                         : 192 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 2 channels
Channel positions                : L R
Sampling rate                    : 48.0 KHz
Stream size                      : 165 MiB (1%)

Audio #6
ID                               : 6656 (0x1A00)
Menu ID                          : 1 (0x1)
Format                           : DTS
Format/Info                      : Digital Theater Systems
Format profile                   : Express
Duration                         : 1h 59mn
Bit rate mode                    : Constant
Bit rate                         : 192 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 2 channels
Channel positions                : Front: L, R
Sampling rate                    : 48.0 KHz
Resolution                       : 24 bits
Stream size                      : 165 MiB (1%)

Text #1
ID                               : 4608 (0x1200)
Menu ID                          : 1 (0x1)
Format                           : PGS

Text #2
ID                               : 4609 (0x1201)
Menu ID                          : 1 (0x1)
Format                           : PGS

Text #3
ID                               : 4610 (0x1202)
Menu ID                          : 1 (0x1)
Format                           : PGS

Text #4
ID                               : 4611 (0x1203)
Menu ID                          : 1 (0x1)
Format                           : PGS

Text #5
ID                               : 4612 (0x1204)
Menu ID                          : 1 (0x1)
Format                           : PGS



Mede8er1

[Marky67]

I am having the same sort of stuttering problem with e few rips, I am streaming from my NAS, going through Gigabyte switches, I have tried the NFS option from the NAS also, and  I am still getting major stuttering, the main file I have came across so far is Disturbia, BluRay rip, I have  the same file in MKV format and m2ts format, mostly everything else is playing trouble free, I just can not get my head around this file and a few others, the file plays perfect through my WDTV  Live "new version" and the same file also plays perfect going to the pc! I ripped it to MKV then ran TSMuxer from the MKV file to decode it to. m2ts.

Help appreciated also 

Some info on the file below:

General
ID                               : 1
Complete name                    : \\NAS-A9-B2-44\Media\Videos\BluRay Rips\Disturbia\Disturbia.m2ts
Format                           : BDAV
Format/Info                      : Blu-ray Video
File size                        : 25.0 GiB
Duration                         : 1h 44mn
Overall bit rate                 : 34.1 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate         : 35.5 Mbps

Video
ID                               : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID                          : 1 (0x1)
Format                           : AVC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                   : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC           : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames        : 2 frames
Duration                         : 1h 44mn
Bit rate                         : 32.1 Mbps
Width                            : 1 920 pixels
Height                           : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 16:9
Frame rate                       : 23.976 fps
Resolution                       : 8 bits
Colorimetry                      : 4:2:0
Scan type                        : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.647
Stream size                      : 23.5 GiB (94%)
Language                         : English

Audio
ID                               : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID                          : 1 (0x1)
Format                           : AC-3
Format/Info                      : Audio Coding 3
Duration                         : 1h 44mn
Bit rate mode                    : Constant
Bit rate                         : 640 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 6 channels
Channel positions                : Front: L C R, Surround: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                    : 48.0 KHz
Stream size                      : 479 MiB (2%)
Language                         : English

[elbarto25]

Good Morning Guys,

it looks like rain. I spent last night with trying different configurations and reading some forums in the www.
It seems as if the network interface from the mede8er is not able to handle the dataflow from a defined quantity (>30Mbps overall).
I found users reporting the same problem with the mede8er AND with the Fantec MediaPlayer, which is same in construction.
The substantial argument in my eyes is the fact, that the stuttering files are played without any problems from an external HHD which is attached by USB.

I´ve made the same experience like marky67 with the WD HD TV Live - there is no such problem streaming via LAN. But this player has other drawbacks.

So I´m very sad, but will be forced to continue my search for "The Player".   

[Mede8er1]

HI Marky67

You should be able to stream this file no problem
Overall bit rate                           : 34.1 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate         : 35.5 Mbps

You need to investigate if you can change the NFS settings on your NAS as foll
Number of UDP NFS Server Threads    32
Max NFS transfer size (bytes)       32768

I did some tests with different value for Max NFS transfer size (bytes)

4096 = max 29Mb/sec
8192  = max 38Mb/sec
16384 = max 45Mb/sec
32768 = over 50Mb/sec
 

Mede8er1

[elbarto25]

Hi mede8er1,

still not found a way to change the NFS settings on my NAS (Qnap TS110).

Does anyone have an an advise?

 

[Maasbommel]

Hi elbarto25,

I would suggest to try to post some questions on the qnap forum also.

[elbarto25]

Yes,
I did so right now! 

[elbarto25]

Guys,

maybe I found the reason for the stuttering. Something I never supposed...

I found this in the Qnap Forum:

I've just had contact with support again and the Qnap developers have deliberately limited the NFS v3 maximum rsize and wsize to 8K.
The reason would be that some clients could have problems with larger block sizes. This makes no sense at all since 8K is the default block size and if you want larger you have to use mount commands for rsize and wsize manually.
I really need 32768 but it just ignores that and defaults back to 8192. This makes it impossible to tune NFS performance.

UPDATE : unfs (ipkg unfs3) works fantastic. Here are the speeds that I got to our Dune :

SMB : 9.6 MB/s
NFS (native QNAP) : 8.8 MB/s
UNFS (ipkg) : 16 MB/s

I did pretty much no tuning of unfs and still achieved well over a 60% increase over SMB, not to mention the lesser overhaed (NFS vs SMB) at the media player which will translate into better playback handling. I am pretty sure that if I wanted to play around with knfs (kernel based NFS - ipkg nfs-utils) that I could maybe get another MB/s or two out of it, but there are some link handling limitations to knfs that don't fit into my file system organizational scheme, so I actually prefer unfs. Plus I use it mainly for streamnig media and @ 16 MB/s I am well above the current BD specs for streaming the full BDMV structure/BD ISO.

Thanks all for this post, I had trouble with an AC Ryan playon HD NMT, playing 1080p blu-ray was not possible till I replace the nfs server.

Any chance that qnap take this into account, at least an advanced option ?.
A lot's of playonhd like device are on the market now and they will all face the same issue with nfs and the default rsize and wsize to 8192 ...

i know some people do have problems and i understand your pains. but it depends a lot on your network, devices, ... various factors.

solution: install unfs as described

So I deeply apologize for my mistake and doubts in the mede8er!

I will now try another NAS - the install of unfs is nothing for me. For that price of a Qnap I expect a perfect working NAS!!!

Can someone give me a recommendation for a compatible NAS?

Greets
Ralf

[xtrm]

Hi elbarto25 ,

I was wondering if you've got this issue resolved.  I have an UNRAID server, not QNAP, but can't seem to stream a 16 Mbps bitrate file without stuttering.  And yes, this is over NFS.  The people hear thinks its a configuration issue with the NFS on the server end, but if that's the case, then I'm wondering why the istar I'm trying to retire does not experience this.  So I'm wondering if you were able to change the settings on your QNAP and if it resolved the issue.

Thanks

[a5ian300zx]

Hi Elbarto25,

just to clairfy i have the same issue as you and searched hi and lo for a solution and conclusion it is not your Qnap, i have spoken to senior member on the qnap forum in regards to tvix 6500a which has much better network performance than the mede8er on the Qnap at the moment, I i have also tried everything on my mede8er.

http://forum.qnap.com/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=24489

and he mentioned to me that the size is actually  is 32768k for the NFS and upon login via SSH on the drive (I can confirm this)

below thread on page 7 has a copy on paste of my log file from my qnap
 
http://forum.qnap.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=777&start=60

I have given up trying to change the values manually and did not make a did difference.

probably will purchase the HDI Dune which has the best network performance and got user to test my test files using his qnap and dune player and they all worked flawlessly.

I hope mede8er can get the NFS values changed or for it to work with NFSv3  as I think this is the cause of the problem.

PS: xtrm - there a guy on mpcclub who has a unraid setup - and has answered some question below using it with tvix 6500a.

http://www.mpcclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22437

a5ian300zx

[elbarto25]

Hi Xtrem,
hi 300ZX,

sorry for the late reply, I spent last week on skiing holiday... (necessary...)

After my last post I bought a new NAS (Synology) and .... had the same problems. 

Meanwhile I´m sure, that either the Network Interface of the Mede8er is very poor (as mentioned in other forums) or it depends on the NFS configuration.
I stopped trying and worrying, now waiting for the ***-BD1 with Gigabit and BD-ISO.

Greets and  best wishes

ElBarto

[a5ian300zx]

Hi Xtrem,
hi 300ZX,

sorry for the late reply, I spent last week on skiing holiday... (necessary...)

After my last post I bought a new NAS (Synology) and .... had the same problems. 

Meanwhile I´m sure, that either the Network Interface of the Mede8er is very poor (as mentioned in other forums) or it depends on the NFS configuration.
I stopped trying and worrying, now waiting for the ***-BD1 with Gigabit and BD-ISO.

Greets and  best wishes

ElBarto

Hi Elbarto25,

i'm in the same boat as you i know its not the nas but the configuration setting of the mede8er which im confident will get resolved with future firmware updates. but in the meantime ive had a look at my options and the BD1 player mentioned does not actually support gigabit ethernet as the new sigma chipset also found on the HDi Dune does not actually support it fully. I have had some forum members on the hdx test some test files on the HDX 1000 player and it just judders like the mede8er.

HDI Dune - uses an optimised SDK code for network performance
"Dune Network Playback Accelerator: special optimizations ensuring best-in-class network playback performance for the Sigma Designs 864x platform and enabling smooth playback of any supported kind of media content via any network protocol (including NFS and SMB) in both 100 Mbit/s and 1000 Mbit/s networks."

they way i see it is i can gamble on the BD1 or buy the HDI Dune which has proven that it can play the high bitrate test files.

a5ian300zx

[elbarto25]

Hi 300ZX,

thank you for the information,
I´m sure that the developers of the BD1 have a solution for the use of Gigabit, otherwise they would have choosen a (low cost) Mbit Interface.
I look hopefully forward to test the BD1, its a complete new development with new userinterface and so on - but you´re right, kind of gambling.
The Dune is my last option (also because of the higher price), but I guess it has a weakness regarding the autoframerate especially with BD-ISOs.

Greets
ElBarto

[a5ian300zx]

Hi 300ZX,

thank you for the information,
I´m sure that the developers of the BD1 have a solution for the use of Gigabit, otherwise they would have choosen a (low cost) Mbit Interface.
I look hopefully forward to test the BD1, its a complete new development with new userinterface and so on - but you´re right, kind of gambling.
The Dune is my last option (also because of the higher price), but I guess it has a weakness regarding the autoframerate especially with BD-ISOs.

Greets
ElBarto

Hi

the decision is your at the end of the day but just to clarify the bluray rip of dark knight i can play on my tvix 6500a flawlessly it just the higher bitrate demo disks that cause a little stutter, and you don't need gigabit to play bluray rips they will play flawlessly on the 10/100 connection too if optimised right.  I believe the auto framerate issue is resolved in the beta version of the Dune firmwares. but let me know once you receive yours and your feedback on the player

I use clown_bd full to rip my blurays to either .m2ts/.ts etc with HD audio.

a5ian300zx

[davinz]

Hi,

I have had the same problem with streaming from a Synology nas. What I did after several testing is to place a 100/10 hub between the Mede8er and the nas, after that the problems where solved!