Author Topic: 600X lag via QNAP NAS  (Read 2797 times)

Offline kikkoman

  • B8a Tester - 1000X3D
  • Newbie
  • ****
  • Posts: 32
  • Helpful Contribution Status: +0/-0
600X lag via QNAP NAS
« on: January 27, 2017, 05:36:44 pm »
Sorry for the double post, but I thought this post would probably make sense here as well:

My setup is as follows:
Modem - ARRIS / Motorola SURFboard Gateway SBG901 (not sure about exact model but looks like it)
Router   - ASUS RT-AC68U
Switch  - DLink DGS-1008G
Switch  - Trendnet TEG-S80g
NAS      - QNAP TS-431
Cable   - Cat5E

Modem > Router > DLink switch > NAS.
also DLink switch > Trendnet switch > Mede8er 600x.

I'm sure all cable are Cat5E. The only one I need to double check is from switch to other switch.

Updated udp_payload_size to 32768 on 600x and QNAP.

What else can I do to get the streaming to work?

I guess I can try to connect from DLink switch (which is connected to NAS) and connect straight to Mede8er, but will need to find a cable long enough for that.

Also would it help to just plug Router directly to NAS and have switch send data or is that an extra step having to go from NAS > Router > Switch. vs. just connecting NAS > Switch?

Any other help is greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Offline kikkoman

  • B8a Tester - 1000X3D
  • Newbie
  • ****
  • Posts: 32
  • Helpful Contribution Status: +0/-0
Re: 600X lag via QNAP NAS
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2017, 03:14:54 pm »
I tried connecting the NAS straight to the switch near the router but noticed it lags more that route, not sure why. Router and both switches are GB. The switch to the other switch is about 20 ft. Then the Trendnet switch goes to the Mede8er along with other devices.

Any ideas I can try? Maybe I can skip the 2nd switch (Trendnet) and test going straight from 1st switch to Mede8er then to a laptop just to see if it lags. If so, then either the cabling? or the 2nd Trendnet switch is the issue?

Also when I was streaming I looked at the throughput for NAS and it showed download speed at around 4-5 MB per second, is that right? GB should be like 1000 MB, but I know it never reaches that. Is that just how the Mede8er works or caps out at? Or whats the high end range of streaming speed from NAS to Mede8er?

Really need to fix this issue b/c its really time consuming to copy movies from NAS to external HDD and then plug into Mede8er each time.

Thanks in advance.

Offline jer1956

  • Global Moder8or
  • M8er Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 17 218
  • Helpful Contribution Status: +190/-53
Re: 600X lag via QNAP NAS
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2017, 03:22:34 pm »
Best to test with a simple config and work up. The most demanding format is 3d iso, and it's upper spec is 72 mbps.  You typical 2d iso is 35 mbps. Best to measure streaming as internet is measured, in bits, not bytes. Copying is in bytes.

Offline kikkoman

  • B8a Tester - 1000X3D
  • Newbie
  • ****
  • Posts: 32
  • Helpful Contribution Status: +0/-0
Re: 600X lag via QNAP NAS
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2017, 04:08:47 pm »
Best to test with a simple config and work up. The most demanding format is 3d iso, and it's upper spec is 72 mbps.  You typical 2d iso is 35 mbps. Best to measure streaming as internet is measured, in bits, not bytes. Copying is in bytes.

And just curious, is there a program or site you go to, to measure speed or do you just login to the NAS and see the throughput there, or the router?

But I'll need to double check speeds b/c it was 4-5 MB? on NAS when I checked while streaming 2D movie. I have a bunch of 3D so will need to stream those as well, but just wanted to get 2D streaming fine first.

Also, does the switch matter much? Meaning as long as its GB speed, its ok? I see switches that are unmanaged and managed, but mine are unmanaged.

But yeah, I'll see if I can do a simple test this week and post results.

Thanks

Offline jer1956

  • Global Moder8or
  • M8er Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 17 218
  • Helpful Contribution Status: +190/-53
Re: 600X lag via QNAP NAS
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2017, 04:48:59 pm »
The main issue is contention and the resulting impact on increasing wait states at the player end. It has no hardware support for networking. It's the puny 1186 that has handle coyping, unwrapping and sending to the codec. Too much time spent waiting for lan packages means not enough time to do the rests. You need to budget on no more than 40% for handling the network.

Check out these examples

http://www.mede8erforum.com/index.php/topic,14645.0.html
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 05:19:17 pm by jer1956 »

Offline kikkoman

  • B8a Tester - 1000X3D
  • Newbie
  • ****
  • Posts: 32
  • Helpful Contribution Status: +0/-0
Re: 600X lag via QNAP NAS
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2017, 07:09:17 pm »
..You need to budget on no more than 40% for handling the network...
http://www.mede8erforum.com/index.php/topic,14645.0.html

Not sure what you mean by you need to budget no more than 40% for handling network?

Also I did come across that other link you posted and most seem to be streaming from a re-purposed PC to be used to stream a file to Mede8er?

The QNAP 431 specs are: Freescale ARM Cortex-A9 Dual Core 1.2GHz, 512MB RAM, USB3.0, 2-LAN Hot-swappable, Hardware Transcoding Engine.

I currently have an older Inspiron 530 (2.4-GHz Intel Core 2 Duo E4600) running Windows Media Center and Windows 7 which I can stream 2D movies from the NAS just fine. That one is also connected to a 2nd switch downstairs.

Since the PC can stream the 2D movies from the NAS just fine and how you mentioned Mede8er doesn't have any hardware support for networking, it just means the PC has support for networking and is why it can stream easier? So just based on specs of the NAS and using Cat 5E cabling, it should be able to handle 2D and 3D streaming to Mede8er just fine? Meaning, its not the NAS processor holding it up?

Offline jer1956

  • Global Moder8or
  • M8er Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 17 218
  • Helpful Contribution Status: +190/-53
Re: 600X lag via QNAP NAS
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2017, 07:23:08 pm »
Your PC is very powerful. It's CPU could spend 60 or 70 % handling i/o and still have time to spare to process what's transferred in the remaining time. The 1186 CPU is puny.  If i/o takes more that 40% of it's time, it dosn't have enough time left to process what it's getting, and stuttering will start. Gbit is needed to help lower the I/o loading, releasing more CPU time to process what is being streamed.     

Offline kikkoman

  • B8a Tester - 1000X3D
  • Newbie
  • ****
  • Posts: 32
  • Helpful Contribution Status: +0/-0
Re: 600X lag via QNAP NAS
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2017, 11:01:12 pm »
...The 1186 CPU is puny.  If i/o takes more that 40% of it's time, it dosn't have enough time left to process what it's getting, and stuttering will start. Gbit is needed to help lower the I/o loading, releasing more CPU time to process what is being streamed.     

I see, thanks for the explanation! I'll work on simplest case tonight/tomorrow to go from NAS > switch > cat 5E > mbp. Then even try NAS > router > switch > cat 5E > mbp. Then posts my results.

Offline kikkoman

  • B8a Tester - 1000X3D
  • Newbie
  • ****
  • Posts: 32
  • Helpful Contribution Status: +0/-0
Re: 600X lag via QNAP NAS
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2017, 06:01:59 am »
I was able to test NAS > switch > Mede8er > monitor to play 2D movie just fine, was going about 32mb. Then I tested down stairs NAS > switch > downstairs switch > Mede8er > AVR > TV and was able to play 2D and 3D just fine on the 3D TV.

So the main difference in upstairs setup to downstairs is downstairs uses different AVR and 3D TV. Upstairs which is where I need it to work has a different AVR and using 3D Projector.

Tomorrow I'll test moving tv upstairs and connecting from AVR to TV and see if it can stream 2D/3D from Mede8er and if so, maybe its an issue with the projector? I read a couple of threads mentioning projectors can cause EDID (handshake) issues, but not sure if that would cause it to lag. Also the projector is using like a 20ft HDMI cable which had to be routed through attic.

Offline jer1956

  • Global Moder8or
  • M8er Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 17 218
  • Helpful Contribution Status: +190/-53
Re: 600X lag via QNAP NAS
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2017, 09:29:47 am »
So you don't have two X3D's? You moved the one you have downstairs and tested with the TV? When you move it back up stairs it's position in the daisy chain changes from the down stairs tests.

Offline kikkoman

  • B8a Tester - 1000X3D
  • Newbie
  • ****
  • Posts: 32
  • Helpful Contribution Status: +0/-0
Re: 600X lag via QNAP NAS
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2017, 03:14:40 pm »
So you don't have two X3D's? You moved the one you have downstairs and tested with the TV? When you move it back up stairs it's position in the daisy chain changes from the down stairs tests.

Correct, I only have 1 X3D and just moved it around.  So the modem, router, NAS, and 1st switch are all upstairs. From the 1st switch there's about 30-40 ft cat 5E to downstairs switch (Trendnet TEG-S80g). Then from 2nd switch to AVR > Mede8er, is how it tested and it was fine.

Upstairs setup is very similar, which goes from 1st switch to about 20 ft cat 5E to upstairs switch (same model as downstairs switch). Then from 2nd switch to AVR > Mede8er, is how that one is usually setup, but that one lags.

Like I mentioned, so far only difference is different brand AVR and connection to projector. Of course on the switches upstairs and downstairs they're connected to other devices as well. The only other device that's always on and connected to upstairs switch is Fire TV, so I may just unplug to see what happens.

But yeah, I'll try testing TV upstairs with Mede8er and see what happens tonight.

Offline jer1956

  • Global Moder8or
  • M8er Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 17 218
  • Helpful Contribution Status: +190/-53
Re: 600X lag via QNAP NAS
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2017, 06:29:11 pm »
The long lan cable runs. Are they just lose cables, or buried with socket plates in the walls?  If lose cables, where they clipped to the walls with nailed clips?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 06:36:44 pm by jer1956 »

Offline kikkoman

  • B8a Tester - 1000X3D
  • Newbie
  • ****
  • Posts: 32
  • Helpful Contribution Status: +0/-0
Re: 600X lag via QNAP NAS
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2017, 03:50:25 pm »
...Are they just lose cables, or buried with socket plates in the walls?  If lose cables, where they clipped to the walls with nailed clips?

They're not clipped to the walls but grouped and hung on metal loops that are attached to the studs throughout the attic. And when they come out of the wall into each room, they are connected to a socket plate, where I just attach a cat 5E from there into my 2nd switch.

I tried the following:
  • Tested with TV upstairs and same issues with lagging.
  • Using another switch and same thing. The lag is not all the time, but maybe like 1 per minute or 2.
  • Tried using another cat 5E cable from switch to mede8er, on outside of wall. The current cat 5E goes from switch and behind the wall to another area where the devices are.
  • Tried using another hdmi cable from AVR to mede8er, on outside of wall. The current hdmi goes from AVR and behind the wall to another area where the devices are.
  • Tried going straight from mede8er to TV, so bypassing the AVR altogether, still little lag.
  • Even tried going straight from router > cat 5E > 2nd switch > cat 5E > mede8er, so bypassing the cable routing in the attic and just pulling cables to the two rooms for testing and even still a little lag? (this was going to AVR, so need to test w/o going to AVR) So this really confused me, b/c it should work from what I could tell b/c when I tested the other day connecting to 2nd switch downstairs to that TV it streamed ok and that was going thru the attic and about 30-40 ft of cabling, whereas for this test is about 15 ft cabling not in the attic. Maybe I need to test 1st switch > cat 5E > 2nd switch (not thru attic) instead of starting from the router.

I'll need to test a couple of more scenarios but if anything, I think I can just move my NAS over to where my game room is and have it directly connect to the mede8er that way. It can do that right? I can test to verify, but would rather not have the NAS in the game room.

Any other things to test out? This is really bothering and annoying me.

Thanks

Offline jer1956

  • Global Moder8or
  • M8er Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 17 218
  • Helpful Contribution Status: +190/-53
Re: 600X lag via QNAP NAS
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2017, 06:49:27 pm »
What exactly do you mean by lag? Stuttering or audio/video out of sync?

Offline kikkoman

  • B8a Tester - 1000X3D
  • Newbie
  • ****
  • Posts: 32
  • Helpful Contribution Status: +0/-0
Re: 600X lag via QNAP NAS
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2017, 06:57:51 pm »
What exactly do you mean by lag? Stuttering or audio/video out of sync?

Sorry, the issue is with stuttering. Sometimes it plays a minute then stutters just for like half a second, other times it will play for 2 minutes and stutters, other times it will stutter 2-3 times within a minute. For instance, playing Force Awakens 3D, during the intro theme song, different scenarios it will stutter at different times and not go thru the whole song without issue.