Author Topic: New Foobar Gapless and SACD DMR Streaming Guide  (Read 6313 times)

Offline jer1956

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New Foobar Gapless and SACD DMR Streaming Guide
« on: January 12, 2017, 09:00:36 am »
I have previously posted on streaming gapless music to the DMR using WASAPI restreaming.

http://www.mede8erforum.com/index.php/topic,17266.0.html


The frustration for me was those solutions are limited to CD Quality i.e. 16 bit at 44.1 khz. Whilst finding those solutions i found foobar2000 could do it avoiding that limitation. It is also supports SACD/DSD playing. I decided it needs its own Tip.

So we can use that as an All in One solution. There is no need for  jamcast/swyh.

In order to  share foobar builds I started to use Portable Installs this time last year.


This is the link to my zipped foobar folder on DropBox.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/1ta7n2ydgetkvg0/foobarvbs.zip?dl=0



This is 2x Upsampling 44.1 and 48. SACD is converted to 24/352 PCM, and  down sampled to 192 so it works with Music DACS via SPDIF. All streaming is done using 24 bit wave to  the X3D 24/192 DLNA DMR. Because the player is gapless there are no DMR reconnects at track boundaries, only at the end of the current playlist. You could try the DMR in your Amp, but like i found, it is probably only 16/192. Same with the X2, when it bothers to work.

Download foobarvbs.zip from DropBox and copy to  the drive/partition you wish to host it on. Then expand to drive:/foobar/.   See Fig DMR1.

Open folder, find foobar.bat, and create a desktop shortcut.  See Fig DMR2.

Run foobar2000 using the shortcut. The bat automatically opens config.

Library will  be highlighted on the left. Add your music store folder in place of mine. See Fig DMR4. Shut down foobar.

Turn on the X3D, and enable DLNA DMR. Go  back to the PC.  Use the .bat shortcut to start foobar. Select Display/Output from the open config display. From the  top drop list select the X3D DMR. Make sure 24 bit  is also selected.  See Fig DMR5.

Now  select what  you want to play and it will be converted to  wave and sent to  the DMR.

Option B


Too automate the process further... create a new local account called X3D. Log in, and locate the foobar folder. Create a desktop shortcut for foobar.vbs.  Copy said shortcut, and place in this folder

C:\Users\X3D\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Startup


Now create a Remote Desktop login to user X3D. Whenever that user logs in, the foobar vbs script is run.


The script will force the output to first DMR found after Primary Sound Device, and then close Properties. You must have the X3D running before using the script. It works using Remote Desktop and client audio set too off. If not, there are too many Audio Devices in the output list and the DMR isn't selected.

I have also added the monkeymote library. Foobar can now be controlled via one of it's clients.

https://www.monkeymote.com/home

It's much better than using Remote Desktop for control once remote foobar  has been started.

N.B.
It is possible to use the vbs script without Remote Desktop. The problem is each PC will have a differing number of audio devices before the DMR in the list. The vbs must be modified to relect that.

This line must be changed.

oShell.SendKeys "{DOWN}"

If you need to cursor down three times it needs to be

oShell.SendKeys "{DOWN 3}"
« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 08:58:41 am by jer1956 »

Offline jer1956

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Re: New Foobar Gapless and SACD DMR Streaming Guide
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2017, 10:41:47 am »
I forgot to mention. This solution works for me because i use a Win 10 PC as my NAS, and have a Win 10 Tablet in the lounge, on which I typed this. I use Windows Remote Desktop to run foobar on the server PC. This approach could be used for similar configurations, if you find the software to do it. 

Offline jer1956

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Re: New Foobar Gapless and SACD DMR Streaming Guide
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2017, 01:56:50 pm »
Upsampling? Magic?

The answer is DAC engineering. Like it or not your perfect digital stream has to go through a DAC. That DAC creates out of phase mush, which with CD requires a horrid wall filter at 22 khz to filter it off.  Upsampling is an engineering trade off. Upsample in the digital domain creating some distortion, then filter off the mush at 44 khz (or higher) with an innocuous roll off filter. So every DAC, including the 24 bit DACs in a surround amp, will have a horrid wall filter at 22 khz for 44.1, and nice roll off filters for higher sample frequencies.

Bit perfect is an illusion held by those who don't understand the problems of the analog stage. Audio Fidelity is about minimizing distortion, and striving for zero knowing it cannot be achieved. That currently means digitally upsampling CD to SACD frequencies, avoiding both bit perfect and  the horrid 22khz wall filter, thus taking less away, not adding something out of thin air. To many it appears ridiculous. All that wasted storage and bandwidth, just to move the DAC filter further and further away from damaging harmonics impacting the detectable range. But that is what audiophile digital is all about. Those happy with mp3 expanded and sent as 44.1 PCM through the horrid 22khz wall filter are not into audiophile music. 
« Last Edit: January 14, 2017, 10:02:07 pm by jer1956 »

Offline jer1956

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Re: New Foobar Gapless and SACD DMR Streaming Guide
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2017, 10:12:40 am »
I am looking at other Remote Desktop clients, but can't run them myself.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.microsoft.rdc.android



https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/microsoft-remote-desktop/id715768417?mt=12

It will probably need a simpler phone optimised skin for foobar....if such a thing exists.

I will list a few here...and test them.

This uses the first simple skin i got working.

http://eddiezato.deviantart.com/art/foow7mp-170523892

Download
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6flk1detl0tn5s0/foobarphone1.zip?dl=0

....and a second


http://fanco86.deviantart.com/art/Shuyo-for-Foobar2000-113400038


Download


https://www.dropbox.com/s/a8aabv799xgkkav/foobarphone2.zip?dl=0

These work best by using Library once, and then right click All Music....Send to Current Playlist. You then have all the Albums with Album Covers in the Playlist. No need to use the Library again.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 03:57:10 pm by jer1956 »

Offline jer1956

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Re: New Foobar Gapless and SACD DMR Streaming Guide
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2017, 09:42:01 am »
In the first attempt last year i used the web gui plug-in for control. I didn't like the GUI so shifted to Remote Desktop. Running a phone browser or app for control will be the easiest option to most users considering foobar as a gapless wave streaming server. A lot has improved since last year, but i can't test them.

http://www.banamalon.net/wiki/index.php?title=FooMote


https://www.monkeymote.com/

The key is to make sure they force foobar to run it's own gapless player and output to the X3D DMR. So take one of my builds, and install the remote control plug-in each remote needs. Monkeymote has more clients, and uses it's own plugin. The two phone builds above now include this, and other recent SACD changes.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 03:58:15 pm by jer1956 »

Offline jer1956

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Re: New Foobar Gapless and SACD DMR Streaming Guide
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2017, 02:30:34 pm »
I am working on a further mod to the above...to auto connect to the X3D Dmr when foobar starts.

Offline pyrhos

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Re: New Foobar Gapless and SACD DMR Streaming Guide
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2017, 07:21:09 pm »
Thank you very much for your guide. I try it and I have problem play SACD with PCM samplerate 176400 Hz - sound is interrupet with hiss. When I setting PCM samplerate to 88 200 Hz, it is OK. I changed foo_input_saced.dll plugin to ver. 1.0.5, but sound is still with hiss. When I play music from notebook via USB to DAC via ASIO, everything is OK.  FLAC with 24 bit 192 000 Hz is OK. When I play music from Made8er I must HDMI cable unpluged - when is HDMI cable plug in Made8er, music play only 48 kHz.

Offline jer1956

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Re: New Foobar Gapless and SACD DMR Streaming Guide
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2017, 08:10:41 pm »
So you downloaded one of my portable builds? But you are not using a HDMI amp, but spdif to a Music DAC?

Not sure SPDIF handles the 176400. So we need to resample to 192000 by adding another DSP. Will add a new build with one, and post it.   I'm thinking up the SACD PCM, and then downsample via the DSP.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 11:25:18 am by jer1956 »

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Re: New Foobar Gapless and SACD DMR Streaming Guide
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2017, 09:34:26 am »
Just testing using optical spdif with hdmi removed. Playing sacd, amp says 192khz. No hiss...just music.

Looks like i need to add this fix to previous builds, and change the description in the guide.

The remove hdmi issue is because those directly connecting to a TV get  the TV's audio EDID....48Khz Stereo PCM. That limits SPDIF because the player can't produce two simultaneous PCM streams. I have reattached HDMI, and get my amps audio EDID. So i still get 192khz via optical spdif.

Whole Tip and dropbox zip's modified to reflect this SACD change.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 05:08:25 pm by jer1956 »

Offline pyrhos

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Re: New Foobar Gapless and SACD DMR Streaming Guide
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2017, 03:53:15 pm »
Yes, I dowloaded your build from dropbox and I not using HDMI AMP, but SPDIF to Ami Musik DS5 DAC. Today I downloaded your new build from dropbox and everything is OK.Thank you, upsampling SACD to 192 kHz is right way.
Is it possible streaming gapless music from SACD and chose output mode DSD via Mede8er to DAC? I try it, and it doesn't work.

Offline jer1956

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Re: New Foobar Gapless and SACD DMR Streaming Guide
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2017, 04:18:52 pm »
No, you must use foobar to convert the SACD to a format the X3D can handle, PCM/Wav. Those who can stream 35 mbps BD should have no problem with a 10 mbps wave. The SACD conversion is creating a 20mbps stream, but it gets reduced before leaving foobar.

You are in a position to compare PC DSD Asio Dac, to PC wave med dac, and tell us the difference.

Here is a comparison with some very expensive conversion software. The filter is an option to do audio tests with.

http://archimago.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/analysis-dsd-to-pcm-2015-foobar-sacd.html
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 06:31:41 pm by jer1956 »

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Re: New Foobar Gapless and SACD DMR Streaming Guide
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2017, 09:29:21 am »
The above guide shows some interesting results. Foorbar SACD can be used  just as the first stage, to convert SACD to unfiltered 24/352. Then add the filter at the down sampling stage. That can be done using a foobar Shelf Filter DSP.  Testing that now, with my ears. I don't have the equipment the guy in the previous post does.

Actually the sox resampler has to include a filter anyway. Passband means what percentage of the lower audible range is passed untouched. So 100% means everything up to 22khz, and then the roll off starts.

Found that out by using resampler V, another foobar plugin.

Have now rebuilt foobarDMR.zip, processung SACD with the filter added during resampling by resampler V.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 06:10:58 pm by jer1956 »

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Re: New Foobar Gapless and SACD DMR Streaming Guide
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2017, 03:30:18 pm »
Have been testing using Resampler V for the 44100;48000 upsampling. I have to say i prefer the sound compared to the sox only plugin. I am still using Sox , but as supplied with Resampler V, and with more control via Resampler V. It allows you to try the apodizing filter found in expensive upsampling DACS and CD players...for free.


http://www.enjoythemusic.com/hificritic/vol3_no1/meridian_808i2.htm


foobarDMR.zip now using Resampler V apodizing filter for resampling.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 09:26:23 am by jer1956 »

Offline pyrhos

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Re: New Foobar Gapless and SACD DMR Streaming Guide
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2017, 08:35:40 am »
Very nice test of resamplers for foobar 2000 is here: http://audiophilesoft.ru/publ/my/foo_resamplers/11-1-0-34. Best score of quality + speed had SOX. Only for upsampling is recommended check "Aliasing/imaging" and value phase response 50% linear.
I'm tried your new build with Resampler-V and when I try configure it, foobar crash. I think DSP Resampler-V must instal - this is not standalone plugin and for seting is necesÚry install this resampler from http://audiophilesoft.ru/publ/my/foo_resamplers/11-1-0-34.
Your guide and build is very helpful. I enjoy gapless music from my computer via LAN and Mede8er without complicated setitng. When I have the time I will try compare this solution with way play sound from notebook via USB with Foobar and output mode DSD.

Offline jer1956

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Re: New Foobar Gapless and SACD DMR Streaming Guide
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2017, 09:06:31 am »
I installed Resampler V to where it wanted to go..in Program Files(x86). I then Copy Pasted those folders into my build.  It works for me. It only appears in the DSP list, not components. Not tried a clean build. The old Sox resampler is still there.

In the end the only ears that count are yours. Not for me to tell you what plug in or settings to use. Have a play around, and enjoy the result.

Have read somewhere that apodizing sounds like analog LP. It's impulse tests are similar. Nothing until the actual impulse, then decaying resonance.

I have zipped the Resampler V install. That needs to be unzipped into a portable build to use it.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 10:26:53 am by jer1956 »