Author Topic: High bitrate MKV streaming  (Read 14736 times)

Online Bytec

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High bitrate MKV streaming
« on: January 22, 2014, 10:46:28 am »
Hello!

I'm having stuttering issues while playing high bitrate (~49 Mbit/s) 3D Blu-ray remuxed MKV file trough SMB share.
The very same file is perfectly playable when located on local HDD inside Mede8er or trough same SMB share on a PC player.

I'm streaming from my drobo 5N and it is capable to stream well over ~49 Mbit/s (my tests show ~260 Mbit/s).
I have tried server side Jumbo frames set to On/Off and Gigabit switch with only 2 hosts (Server/Player).
No effect on stuttering issue so far.

I have attached bitrate graph and MediaInfo.

Can anybody give any advice besides NFS streaming on how to improve SMB streaming in Mede8er?
Can I increase Mede8er playback buffer?



Code: [Select]
General
Unique ID                                : 213529310834759626448657706851917641891 (0xA0A43FD6FB325124B7FF39BCA42438A3)
Complete name                            : B:\Movies\The Croods 3D (2013)\The.Croods.3D.(2013).Blu-ray.ReMux.3DTAB.mkv
Format                                   : Matroska
Format version                           : Version 4 / Version 2
File size                                : 33.4 GiB
Duration                                 : 1h 38mn
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 48.5 Mbps
Movie name                               : The Croods 3D
Encoded date                             : UTC 2014-01-17 16:57:21
Writing application                      : mkvmerge v6.7.0 ('Back to the Ground') 32bit built on Jan  8 2014 15:03:17
Writing library                          : libebml v1.3.0 + libmatroska v1.4.1

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : Stereo High@L4.1 / High@L4.1
MultiView_Count                          : 2
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 3 frames
Codec ID                                 : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration                                 : 1h 38mn
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Maximum bit rate                         : 30.0 Mbps
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 23.976 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Language                                 : English
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Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : DTS
Format/Info                              : Digital Theater Systems
Format profile                           : MA / Core
Mode                                     : 16
Format settings, Endianness              : Big
Codec ID                                 : A_DTS
Duration                                 : 1h 38mn
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : Unknown / 1 509 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 8 channels / 6 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L C R, Side: L R, Back: L R, LFE / Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 24 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossless / Lossy
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No

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Codec ID                                 : S_TEXT/UTF8
Codec ID/Info                            : UTF-8 Plain Text
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No

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Offline jer1956

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Re: High bitrate MKV streaming
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2014, 10:51:32 am »
Realtek  don't make coherent chips, where every part of the chips performances matches the rest.  BD players,  for which  the chip is designed, can play 1080p off the optical drive...but only stream at 720p.  Sanji are pushing the chip  to it's networking limits to  get streaming 3d at 1080p to  work at all, and when it does it may come down to each users network  setup.   

Online Bytec

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Re: High bitrate MKV streaming
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2014, 03:51:39 pm »
So Gigabit port for Mede8er is pure marketing trick and actual network throughput is less than 50 Mbps?
Then 100mbps port would suffice.

Why put Gigabit port on a device that can't saturate even a 100 Mbps link?
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Offline jer1956

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Re: High bitrate MKV streaming
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2014, 04:04:30 pm »
It's advantage is low loading. There is not a hardware lan  chip..those cost as  much has the 1186 motherboard.  The lan  is run using a driver on the cpu which is emptying and filling buffers.  So the lan loading reflects how much CPU time is needed. That means a 3d BD requires 70% of a 100mbps link, or only 7% of a Gbit.  70% loading doesn't leave  enough CPU time to process what  comes across.  If you need more that  100 mbps, Gbit is the only option on offer. You can't get a 200 mbps link just to match  the increase in CPU power from the 1185.

Contention is  the biggest issue with networks.    It is not a point to point system and  it doesn't matter how simple your network  the router will  always behave as if any transfer should use as few resources as possible.  IT isn't simple to make it do otherwise....

Online Bytec

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Re: High bitrate MKV streaming
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2014, 04:27:04 pm »
I think you mean "network congestion"...

Well I don't have any router in between my server and player - only one Gigabit LAN switch.
And I even disconnected all other ports on that switch - leaving only player and server.

So there is no network congestion in this case and data stream is less than 60 Mbps on a Gigabit link - plenty of free bandwidth available.

Is there any way to increase playback buffer (preloaded data)?
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Offline jer1956

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Re: High bitrate MKV streaming
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2014, 04:28:43 pm »
There is a technique called Compound TCP which is designed to ramp up  the server buffer allocation  faster than normal TCP.  You need to  check if that  exists in your Samba server setup.


What is  hosting your samba server?

Online Bytec

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Re: High bitrate MKV streaming
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2014, 04:34:06 pm »
I mean playback buffer on Mede8er side because server side is capable to stream with at least 260 Mbps - plenty fast.
Mede8er could pre-load a larger slice of data before start playback and then try to keep that buffer filled. Otherwise buffer under-runs occur frequently.
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Offline jer1956

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Re: High bitrate MKV streaming
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2014, 04:41:56 pm »
I know you  do...but I can only offer advice on what can be changed, not what  can't. Those have to be Feature Requests.

Offline couto

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Re: High bitrate MKV streaming
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2014, 06:03:55 pm »
Hello!

I'm having stuttering issues while playing high bitrate (~49 Mbit/s) 3D Blu-ray remuxed MKV file trough SMB share.
The very same file is perfectly playable when located on local HDD inside Mede8er or trough same SMB share on a PC player.

I'm streaming from my drobo 5N and it is capable to stream well over ~49 Mbit/s (my tests show ~260 Mbit/s).
I have tried server side Jumbo frames set to On/Off and Gigabit switch with only 2 hosts (Server/Player).
No effect on stuttering issue so far.



I blame your Dobro N5, or some settings in your network
i use synology DS412+  and my samba performs very well no issues with all 3DMKV.

Avatar has higher bitrate than croods 3D and  it works wonderfull.

All my rips are 1:1

Med1000X3D
Anthem MRX-310
Mitsubishi HC5
LG Oled 1080P
100 inch screen
Video setting: 23,976Hz On, auto frame ON
Media Source: Wired Network > ds412+ synology
Router. Linksys E4200
Protocol : UDP 32K
Media Files:ISO 3D, MKV, FLAC

Online Bytec

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Re: High bitrate MKV streaming
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2014, 06:42:06 pm »
Well, that is why I also tried streaming from my QNAP TS-119 II and PC.
Plain LAN with one Gigabit switch and only two hosts connected (server and player).
What can be more minimalistic? There are no settings to tweak.

It's interesting how you blame my network or NAS even thou all other devices inter-operate with no problems and with high performance. But when it comes to Mede8er then suddenly all other devices or LAN is to blame...

I've reset my Mede8er MED1000X3D to factory defaults and updated to the latest FW, but stuttering will not go away for high bitrate MKV files that are 1:1 rips with HD sound.

All my Blu-ray files are 1:1 ReMux and have no playback problems once played from local HDD in Mede8er, but many will
struggle when playing via network.

There is no stuttering while playing the very same files via network but on a PC player (MPC-HC).

So, I conclude that something is not right with Mede8er.

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Offline jer1956

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Re: High bitrate MKV streaming
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2014, 07:04:26 pm »
Well, that is why I also tried streaming from my QNAP TS-119 II and PC.
There is no stuttering while playing the very same files via network but on a PC player (MPC-HC).

So, I conclude that something is not right with Mede8er.




Your comparing a sledgehammer and a nutcracker at cracking nuts.  The overheads of a  "noisy" network can  easily be dealt with by a powerful NAS and a powerful HTPC.  Indeed a powerful PC can  deal  with a poor performing NAS requiring higher lan loadings that a powerful NAS.  The 1186 is puny by comparison..it's needs every transfer to  go  through without error becuase it has no spare time to  wait for a second go.  


This is why BD players don't bother streaming at these rates...the Sony, Samsung etc forums would be full of people complaining about poor streaming.   BUt that means they live with the limitations that  what  can  be streamed realiably is meager by what  can be played off optical drive.


Also streaming is not the same as copying.   With copying you expect the client to give 100% CPU time to  the task.  With streaming you cannot expect that as what is being transferred has to  be processed.   So it then  comes down  to  what  can be trasferred at 10-15% cpu loading rather than  100%.  
  
I know Qnaps comparison matrix has lots of info  about throughput. The Drogo site  has none..as if throughput at various CPU loadings  is irrelevant. 
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 07:23:28 pm by jer1956 »

Online Bytec

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Re: High bitrate MKV streaming
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2014, 07:29:02 pm »
...The overheads of a  "noisy" network can  easily be dealt with by a powerful NAS and a powerful HTPC...

Forget the ""noisy" network" argument!
I'm using a single Gigabit switch (tried 2 different switches) with only NAS and Mede8er connected to it - there is no other traffic to create ""noisy" network". And FYI, switch is not a hub - traffic is localized to a particular port and never reaches other ports where it could create collisions... That was in the days of network hubs.

We are talking about stream that is <60Mbps on a Gigabit link. Its less than ~6% of the link capacity!

I suspect that high bit rate combined with HD audio (DTS-Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD) is is taxing CPU so much that it creates networking bottleneck in Mede8er.
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Offline jer1956

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Re: High bitrate MKV streaming
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2014, 08:40:35 pm »
That is what i've been saying.....the cpu is a bottneck....and so is a poor nas. Those with an uber poweful nas can push the data throgh at 7% loading, those with a file sharing nas cannot.

Online Bytec

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Re: High bitrate MKV streaming
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2014, 09:31:32 pm »
That is what i've been saying.....the cpu is a bottneck....and so is a poor nas. Those with an uber poweful nas can push the data throgh at 7% loading, those with a file sharing nas cannot.

drobo 5N, QNAP TS-119 II and PC are by no means poor NAS for the job of streaming 60 Mbps stream on a Gigabit link. :D

Are you seriously suggest I should get "uber poweful nas" that can forcibly pump data into Mede8er and therefor create perfect playback? :D Seriously?

Or may be MED1000X3D is simply too weak to read network and do the playback of high bit rate + HD audio simultaneously.

I hope FW developers will find a way to optimize Mede8er further ... They already dumped Android OS in the name of  performance.
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Offline Maasbommel

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Re: High bitrate MKV streaming
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2014, 09:52:57 pm »
What is the reason why you are not considering NFS and stick to Samba?

Currently the samba peformance on Mede8er side is on max performance tuned - so you will not get anything more from it the rest of your network is configured right.
Read the  Mede8er 400X/500X Beginners Guide
or Mede8er 500X2/400X2/450X2 Beginners Guide

Also check the Couto X3D Newbies Guide first.

Please don't PM me but post on the forum.