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Mede8er Community => Central NAS storage streaming to Mede8er Products => All other brand NAS Products => Topic started by: Lemur on September 11, 2015, 04:55:29 PM

Title: Help with freeze issues (WD My book)
Post by: Lemur on September 11, 2015, 04:55:29 PM
Hello,

So I have bought a Med600X3D long ago, and I  have this issue since then, never understood why, but it seems there is alot of experts in this foruns, so maybe you guys know what is going on.

When I see mkv 1080 specialy, but somtimes in 720 as well, the image will freeze for some seconds, every like 3 minutes or so (i just wait), sometimes it doesnt freeze, it breaks slowly, i hit pause, and all goes good (like maybe its buffering?)

the problem is, I got all the movies in a external network HDD "MyBook Western Digital 2TB", then its connected to my Gigabit router, and from router it goes to "Powerline" TL-PA4020 KIT, then ends at my Med600... All with cables 5E (gigabit), so, im almost sure the problem is in the WD disk reading speeds?

I upgraded firmware several times, now im using the latest (4) and still same issue.

Any help would be apreciated

Tx
Title: Re: Help with freeze issues (WD My book)
Post by: Nachoman on September 11, 2015, 05:16:58 PM
fact that u use cat5E cables isnt saying anything, because there is a LOT of hardware in between you connection.

When reading this. i would test HDD directly on mede8er, to exclude that your HDD is to slow or broken, fragmented, or anything of the sorts.

If that turns out to work good, your HDD is fine, and your hardware is your bottleneck. its even worse with 1080p, so that suggests, higher bitrate/space is problematic, therefore no buffer problem perse, its just to slow to buffer at all. from USB to router, to powerline IN then powerline OUT then mede8er.... pfff.

thats asking for troubles.

Anyway, try to connect your HDD directly with USB plug. wee if it works then.
Title: Re: Help with freeze issues (WD My book)
Post by: K.B.Nikto on September 11, 2015, 05:49:51 PM
The biggest bottleneck in your network is the Powerline kit. Can you bypass it as a test, running a single long Ethernet cable between the router and the 600 and see if that eliminates the freezing?
Title: Re: Help with freeze issues (WD My book)
Post by: Lemur on September 11, 2015, 06:57:02 PM
Will do, thought the power line was ok, like it says 500mbs /s dividing by 8 its like 60mbytes? should be enough

But ill try that, if it works, the problem will be how to seed/download other movies... actually I forgot to say that, while i see movies the hard drive is seeding, but I tried to turn off utorrent and the problem persisted

I will say something later tonight, tx guys
Title: Re: Help with freeze issues (WD My book)
Post by: Nachoman on September 11, 2015, 08:03:50 PM
just read a review about your product.http://tweakers.net/productreview/112039/tp-link-av500-powerline-wifi-kit.html (http://tweakers.net/productreview/112039/tp-link-av500-powerline-wifi-kit.html)
 It is very stabile at least @ 50mbit/s.
where 1080p does like 22 mbit/s and 720p does 12mbit/s
http://superuser.com/questions/434532/what-data-transfer-rates-are-needed-or-streaming-hd-1080p-or-720p-video-or-stan

so i think that part is ok. Still u should test it to solve your problem an come to understand.

I still think its your router.
Yes they have made a USB connector for you, but conversion from USB to network via a chip is always overhead. plus its USB 2.0, not the fastest there is.
Title: Re: Help with freeze issues (WD My book)
Post by: Lemur on September 11, 2015, 10:08:39 PM
So i brought the WD Book near the Med600, connected directly and seemed fine, though it was a fast test, as i need subtitles to the movie and didn't have internet as it was end to end with the HDD, i thought i could connect as follow:

the end of the power line has 2 rj45 slots, so 1 is connected to Med600 and i set the WD Book on the 2nd slot thinking it was a way to connected them directly but not going through the power line... but then again he connects to the hard drive IP, so im guessing the signal goes to router and then all the way back? or am I wrong? Fact is it frozed for like 4seconds after 10minutes of movie...

If that way won't work, can i put a switch at this end and avoid that the stream goes till router and back? or even being in a switch will need to go to router still?
Title: Re: Help with freeze issues (WD My book)
Post by: K.B.Nikto on September 12, 2015, 04:51:28 AM
The most important element of a test is connecting directly between router, hard drive, and Mede8er. We want to remove the Powerline kit completely if we're trying to test to see if it is contributing to your problems.

Just to mention, it's also important to power everything down after reconnecting devices. We have to make sure the router is able to assign fresh IP addresses to each device.

I hope our suggestions help you to isolate the issue and determine where the bottleneck is.
Title: Re: Help with freeze issues (WD My book)
Post by: Lemur on September 12, 2015, 10:37:49 AM
The problem is where i have the TV i can't put the router as its a cable router, and the signal cable is in another room, on the other hand the TV is huge to get to the place where router is. I guess I could buy a 20 meters rj45 cable to test, but the length of it doesn't make noise on signal as well?

Testing directly from med600 to network disk doesn't work? my only problem is i don't have internet for it, but for testing should be ok

to end, i was thinking on a wireless solution instead of power line, something like, a router connected to my cable router (that is wireless but doesn't have 5gbps):
- Router TP-Link Wireless AC1750 Archer C7 Dual-Band Gigabit

and on the other end 1 extender, simply because i need the rj45 to connect to med600:
-Access Point TP-Link AC1750 RE450 Extender

its a 200 euros solution, but hey if i was sure it worked..
Title: Re: Help with freeze issues (WD My book)
Post by: can5ona on September 12, 2015, 02:03:14 PM
When i have med600 + mybook live 2tb (and 1000mbit router) i had "freeze problem" - now i change mybook on synology ds215j and problem still here.
Title: Re: Help with freeze issues (WD My book)
Post by: Nachoman on September 12, 2015, 02:31:37 PM
The problem is where i have the TV i can't put the router as its a cable router, and the signal cable is in another room, on the other hand the TV is huge to get to the place where router is. I guess I could buy a 20 meters rj45 cable to test, but the length of it doesn't make noise on signal as well?
No
Testing directly from med600 to network disk doesn't work? my only problem is i don't have internet for it, but for testing should be ok.
I believed the WD Book had an USB connector. But I assume it only has RJ45/UTP connector?
to end, i was thinking on a wireless solution instead of power line, something like, a router connected to my cable router (that is wireless but doesn't have 5gbps):
I HIGHLY doubt a wireless connection will be faster/more stable then a wired connection :S
- Router TP-Link Wireless AC1750 Archer C7 Dual-Band Gigabit

and on the other end 1 extender, simply because i need the rj45 to connect to med600:
-Access Point TP-Link AC1750 RE450 Extender

its a 200 euros solution, but hey if i was sure it worked..
[/quote]
Title: Re: Help with freeze issues (WD My book)
Post by: Nachoman on September 12, 2015, 02:37:21 PM
So i brought the WD Book near the Med600, connected directly and seemed fine, though it was a fast test, as i need subtitles to the movie and didn't have internet as it was end to end with the HDD, i thought i could connect as follow:

the end of the power line has 2 rj45 slots, so 1 is connected to Med600 and i set the WD Book on the 2nd slot thinking it was a way to connected them directly but not going through the power line... but then again he connects to the hard drive IP, so im guessing the signal goes to router and then all the way back? or am I wrong? Fact is it frozed for like 4seconds after 10minutes of movie...

If that way won't work, can i put a switch at this end and avoid that the stream goes till router and back? or even being in a switch will need to go to router still?

Yes, that will work. i cannot promise the connection will be without any stutter this way, but it should work.


U have one more option, and its much cheaper i think.
(http://www.networktechinc.com/nti/images/items/usb-am-rj45m-co.jpg)


having said that, u could also take out the WD MyBook HDD, and put it in an USB CASING instead. it is not expensive. maybe 10-15 dollars
Title: Re: Help with freeze issues (WD My book)
Post by: Lemur on September 12, 2015, 03:54:22 PM
Ok I did a more intensive test, using a 28GB MKV "Avengers Age of Ultron 1080p", so the result with the normal setup its the movie since start lags every 5seconds, like im seeing a movie in 5 frames per second

When i connect directly the WD HDD to med6003x it goes ok, if i just turned it on, it lags a bit on the first 20s of the movie but then it goes smooth. So the problem is on the power line kit, though it states to give 500mbps.. the router might be the problem as well, but as I said before thats hard to solve

When I asked about the wireless setup, was to know if it way better then powerline, not if its better then physical rj45 cables. As no way I will have a 20meters cable across the house forever.

To use it as USB connected, what is that good for? I mean USB 2.0 does what 10mbs per second, is that even enough for mkv? I can try and put the mkv in a usb hard drive, but i bet it will lag a lot, won't it?
Title: Re: Help with freeze issues (WD My book)
Post by: Nachoman on September 12, 2015, 04:32:36 PM
Ok I did a more intensive test, using a 28GB MKV "Avengers Age of Ultron 1080p", so the result with the normal setup its the movie since start lags every 5seconds, like im seeing a movie in 5 frames per second.

When i connect directly the WD HDD to med6003x it goes ok, if i just turned it on, it lags a bit on the first 20s of the movie but then it goes smooth. So the problem is on the power line kit, though it states to give 500mbps.. the router might be the problem as well, but as I said before thats hard to solve.

1. If direct connection to mede8er STILL gives a 20 second lag... then your HDD WD MyBook is very slow from itself. because that may not happen at all in my opinion.
When I asked about the wireless setup, was to know if it way better then powerline, not if its better then physical rj45 cables. As no way I will have a 20meters cable across the house forever.
well, u can try, but most of the time, a cable of ANY kind is better then wireless. So i think powerline is at least little bit better then wireless.

To use it as USB connected, what is that good for? I mean USB 2.0 does what 10mbs per second, is that even enough for mkv? I can try and put the mkv in a usb hard drive, but i bet it will lag a lot, won't it?


Typical fast drives claim to read at up to 30 megabytes/s (MB/s) and write at about half that speed. This is about 20 times faster than USB 1.1 "full speed" devices which are limited to a maximum speed of 12 Mbit/s (1.5 MB/s).
I think the USB connection will be much better. try that also. i am very interested in your results.
Title: Re: Help with freeze issues (WD My book)
Post by: Lemur on September 12, 2015, 05:55:16 PM
Yea, on usb port at med600 the movie runs flawless, not 1 lost frame... but it would be a pain to download movies then move them to usb drive (i could download directly to usb drive, but then i would need to stop torrents when moving the disk to my med600 and seeing the movie )
Title: Re: Help with freeze issues (WD My book)
Post by: Lemur on September 12, 2015, 09:08:30 PM
So further testing I used a software to test Network speeds, not using powerline it gives me 27mb write and 40mb read. If I go to the end of powerline all i can get is 5mb write and 7mb write...
Title: Re: Help with freeze issues (WD My book)
Post by: Nachoman on September 12, 2015, 11:06:18 PM
wow, thats amazingly slow  :-X . well sir, i think u know enough.


u can still use that HDD, and put it in an USB casing and then u can still use it for torrents,
Because that HDD is reachable from your PC while it is connected too mede8er.


So your torrent download folder will actually be a networked drive  8)
Title: Re: Help with freeze issues (WD My book)
Post by: K.B.Nikto on September 13, 2015, 07:31:16 PM
So further testing I used a software to test Network speeds, not using powerline it gives me 27mb write and 40mb read. If I go to the end of powerline all i can get is 5mb write and 7mb write...

I'm glad you were able to troubleshoot the problems as suggested and then prove that the Powerline kit was indeed the bottleneck!

Nachoman's suggestion of putting the physical hard drive into another case is a good one. Anything you can do to make access to today's massive media files faster and get them to your Mede8er without bottlenecks is the goal we all have now. We aren't dealing with 160x160 QuickTime .movs on 1.4MB floppies like we did 30 years ago. :)

Enjoy!
Title: Re: Help with freeze issues (WD My book)
Post by: Lemur on September 15, 2015, 04:33:33 PM
Tx guys, but still, wont a wireless router+extender do better then the abnormal speeds of 5mbytes i was getting in powerline? Like a 300mbps norm (think its n) should max up at 40mbytes?
Title: Re: Help with freeze issues (WD My book)
Post by: K.B.Nikto on September 15, 2015, 04:55:57 PM
It depends on distance, obstructions, and the hardware on both ends, but my feeling is that a good wireless n connection would be an improvement over the Powerline.
Title: Re: Help with freeze issues (WD My book)
Post by: Nachoman on September 16, 2015, 02:22:32 PM
in this case i think so too. but i still cant imagine wireless better then wired... am old fashioned though :P


wireless is getting better every year. here is something to read:


You generally won't get close to the "advertised" speed of the router. Even though the router says "300 mbps" output, chances are you will get a fraction of that in normal conditions. Even right next to the router, you might be lucky to get 80-90 mbps on such a router (depending on the device, a smartphone will probably be even slower). To add to the noise, any other routers in the area that are overlapping your channel in the slightest will also cause a loss in bandwidth. As will other devices, electronics, walls, etc. The top rated (highly expensive) wireless N routers generally come nowhere near the "advertised speed." The Asus RT-N66U Dark Knight for example is a dual band 600mbps N router (2.4/5ghz) - the fastest speed it achieved in the same room was about 120mbps (perfect conditions) on the 5Ghz spectrum, and about 50mbps on the 2.4ghz spectrum. In the next room with a wall between, the speeds were cut in half 60mbps for 5ghz, and 20mbps on 2.4ghz. That is one of the highest rated wireless N routers. The new AC routers like the Netgear Nighthawk have seen speeds (on AC only) of 400mbps however, so the speed are improving.

Source: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-1642166/wireless-real-world-speed.html


So it might become a very expensive test :|
Title: Re: Help with freeze issues (WD My book)
Post by: Lemur on September 16, 2015, 06:08:18 PM
u talking in bits? 120megabits in 5ghz spectrum = 15mbytes? thats not even enough for 720p(hd) is it? I mean when you say full had needs about 40mb, its bytes correct? not bits
Title: Re: Help with freeze issues (WD My book)
Post by: Nachoman on September 16, 2015, 09:24:34 PM
doesnt matter what spectrum it is. 120mbit = 120 mbit.


 120mb/s divided by 8 = 15MB/s indeed.


 I have had 1080p movies that would spike to 50 megabits/s. That was the absolute highest i ever got. So 40 mbits/s should be enough. but u have little or no overhead left.

Yes, 1080p Full HD needs about 40 mb/s. Remember... b=bits and B=Bytes!
 I always write MB/s and mb/s.



Another test:


- Locatie A: about 3 meters distance without walls
- Locatie B: about 6 meters distance with a few walls

(http://i47.tinypic.com/286yids.jpg)


NOTE: These are MB/s !

EXAMPLE: Locatie A download in ORANGE, is 17MB/s = 136 mbits/s. This is 2.4 GHz band.
EXAMPLE: Locatie B download in GREEN, is 29MB/s = 232 mbit/s. this is 5 GHz band.

remember, 5GHz is higher frequency, it will not penetrate far into walls.. 2,4 GHz will be stable at greater distance.

So this guy tested this router: https://www.asus.com/Networking/RTAC66U/ (https://www.asus.com/Networking/RTAC66U/)

on various places in his house, with various WIFI USB network sticks in his laptop.(the EAN66 and the Intel6300)




So it looks very promising for you if you buy this wireless N router.


But still... this is a pretty expensive one, 150 dollars (144 euro's)

and i still think it would be cheaper and better to just buy an USB HDD enclosure for 10 euro's, hook it up to mede8er, and use it at the same time as a networked download location for your torrents.

U have to leave the Mede8er on while downloading though.
Title: Re: Help with freeze issues (WD My book)
Post by: couto on September 16, 2015, 10:15:49 PM
When i have med600 + mybook live 2tb (and 1000mbit router) i had "freeze problem" - now i change mybook on synology ds215j and problem still here.

Don't forget the network setting in Mede8er configurations  ( UDP + 32976) for synology users..
I have a DS4212+ with NO issues.
Title: Re: Help with freeze issues (WD My book)
Post by: Lemur on September 17, 2015, 08:58:40 AM
Don't forget the network setting in Mede8er configurations  ( UDP + 32976) for synology users..
I have a DS4212+ with NO issues.

K now, this is "chinese" to me, what is "Synology"? And idd i didnt change anything on Meder, its like default settings (if you dont know how to dont do it?) should i change some valor there? like that UDP thingy? im running the last beta firmware btw